Arthouse Garage Podcast

Podcast Transcript for Episode 36: Hirokazu Koreeda’s The Truth

Read the Podcast Transcript for Episode 36: Hirokazu Koreeda's The Truth

Read the transcript below:

Hello, hello and welcome back to art house garage, the snob free film podcast where we make arthouse indie classic and foreign cinema accessible to the masses. I’m your host Andrew Sweatman, and today we are bringing you the season finale. Looking at the film The truth from Japanese director Hirokazu koreeda. Over the last six episodes, we’ve been looking at contemporary Asian filmmakers, including a peach upon worse ethical from Thailand, and Bong Joon ho from Korea. It’s been a good season of films, and today we are closing it out with another wonderful film and create his first that is not in his native Japanese language. I’m joined again by my friend and fellow film podcaster. Omaya Jones, the programmer of the Arkansas times film series. Omaya, how are you? And what have you been watching? I’m doing well. I have been watching mostly documentaries lately. So at the time that we’re recording this, the hotsprings Documentary Film Festival just ended and I got to go to hot springs and see one thing Oh, cool in person, they can drive through there. Yeah. Right, that film was called Otto is Ottolenghi and the case of Versailles and it’s a it’s a sort of behind the scenes thing, where they filmed various food people and their prep for one of the Matt galahs. That was the theme for that particular mat gala was for psi. And so that you see all this really elaborate food prep, and all this research into the history of the food and the time period. And there’s just all this historical, historical.

There’s this like, historical educational component to the film. And then other than that, I’ve watched a couple of other documentaries. One was David Burns American utopia. Oh, yeah. By Spike Lee. Right. That was just on HBO.

Now, I didn’t realize that. Yeah, it premiered at the time of this recording repaired last Saturday. I’ve been mean to watch that. Okay. Wow. And I enjoyed it a lot.

Except for a couple of spots where he played songs that were also featured in stop making sense. But for the most part, it was really easy to not get lost and trying to compare the two. Yeah.

And then also watch finally the way I see it, is, yeah, you’re watching it on like the msnbc when it aired. Right. So they aired it on msnbc commercial free on Friday, I think. And it I’ve sort of like this mixed reaction to it. Yeah.

Coming, like coming at it from both like as a film

and, like the form of it.

And but there was, I don’t know, there’s like this emotional pool. Yeah. So like, I like I was

somewhat involved the Obama campaign in 2008, at a local level, I volunteered, I knocked on doors, I was actually a delegate to the national convention. So I got to go to Denver, Italy, and part of that process. And so like, there were a lot of these emotions that were that, that were just kind of being pulled out of me. And like this sense of, like pride and,

and getting to, like, relive that.

But there is also just this, this weird sense of,

sort of, like watching it, and knowing where our politics is today. And sort of like what activism on the ground is like, and just seen how there’s this sort of disconnect between I don’t know.

Like, what this level of politics from people who are like insiders versus like people on the ground. Yeah.

Meaning like, what he sees his activism is not

congruent with that kind of activism. You mean, like it’s a different level or different kind of thing?

Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, they make a great deal of the film, the fact that he’s using he’s willing to use his voice. Yeah. But the way he uses it, are these like snarky Instagram? comments, you know? Yeah. And just so that it’s printed like the idea that’s like, This isn’t like a like a, it’s a big deal that someone would go on Instagram and

make sassy comments, but like, day to day like reality to seem like like it’s that big a deal? Yeah. Is it more of just like a, an echo chamber kind of, kind of thing? Like, like people who like it? Of course they like it and people who don’t aren’t gonna hear it or pay attention. Yeah, I think that’s valid. That makes a lot of sense.

Yeah, I really, I really liked it. So I saw it at the drive in at filmland. And yeah, it is it was surprisingly emotional. If you told me you know, a photography documentary was gonna make me cry. I would have been surprised by that. But it definitely did.

And some of that is just the disparity, which I think that’s what it lays on really thick is Look how the Obama years were and look at what we have today. And

It definitely just makes you miss that. And yeah, and I think they obviously wanted to come out right before the election to try to sway people. But maybe you’re right that it’s the same kind of thing that

people love Obama. They’re gonna love this but people who aren’t on the on the other side of things, is this really going to convince anyone? I don’t know. That’s an interesting question. Yeah. Well, I was gonna say, I think it’s worth watching. Yeah. I just like I wonder if the film actually has the bite that I’ve that it thinks that it wants it to have. Yeah, I like on the level to hound to talk too much about this, because I’m actually hoping to do a whole episode on it in a few weeks, but the just the photography aspect of it, like it was just fascinating to see like, what his job was like, and then the way he talked about trying to capture a story in a in a still image for someone who’s not a photographer, that was really fascinating. I’m sure that I have a couple of photographer friends I want them to see it and, and see their take on that. That aspect of it. But I enjoyed that. What have you been watching? Yes. How we’re just gonna talk about one thing. Well, I guess I can list a few things. I watched dick Johnson is dead, which we’re gonna hopefully discuss in the future as well. I also watched a film called Oh, yeah, I won’t go into much detail and dig Johnson is dead, because that’ll be again, the focus of more discussion. I watched the assistant, which is a film directed by

looking at her name right now. Kitty green. And it stars Julia Garner, who I know from Ozark she’s a really great actor, she

basically she plays a low level assistant at a company where like a Harvey Weinstein type of person is the boss. And it pretty clearly kind of

mirrors that. But it’s it’s sort of the style of it is really great. It’s kind of really minimal and quiet. And so then when the heavy things happen, it like a really hits hard because it’s such an understated kind of a movie. I’m also planning to discuss that one on a later episode. So also hold back some of my thoughts there. But I do recommend that one. And then the one that I really want to talk about is, have you seen the watchmen series from last year?

I have seen I was to the last how many episodes are there like nine I think nine. So I’ve seen probably the last seven episodes, but not the first two.

Yeah, I don’t.

So sometimes when things are on on TV, like cable or something, yeah.

So I grew up primarily the 90s. You know, back then you didn’t always watch television in order. Yeah. So I that’s a habit that I have continued to maintain.

So you know, I would just watch like it was on, I would watch whatever episode was on, they aired a bunch episodes back to back to back, I watched a few. And that was kind of how I experienced watchman. I do the same thing with movies. Sometimes.

If I turn on HBO, and a movie that I want to see is on I’ll watch it from whatever point that I catch it to the end. And then later, I’ll go back and catch the beginning. Interesting. Wow. That’s different from me. But yeah, again, no judgment. That’s really interesting. How were you familiar? Like, did you ever read the comic of watchmen or see the film from 2008? I seen the film I’ve read the comic actually have on my bookshelf, the absolute edition. Nice, which is like an oversized version.

Yeah, so I’ve been familiar with logic for a while my undergrad was in sequential art, which is a fancy term for comics. Yeah. So I went to I went to scad for that. So watchmen, I feel like is a big part of, of being a comic book fan of a certain age. Yeah. Especially if you’re an American. Hmm. Yeah. That’s, that’s brilliant. I didn’t know that about you. Wow. I read it in college and and saw the film and didn’t love the film, which I think is, you know, probably not unique. But yeah, I really liked the show a lot. I think, the way it brings racial issues into the forefront, I did not expect I mean, I kind of heard that going before I watched it, but much more than I expected, like it did, to give some idea. It opens with the Tulsa massacre, which actually, we can raise some awareness here because the Tulsa massacre was this real event that happened in the 20s. That in Tulsa, there’s this really affluent black neighborhood that was decimated by the clinton I think are just blatantly racist things happening. And that was then covered up for years and only gained any public attention in the last like 10 years, I think. And so I thought it was really interesting that it decided to just open the show with that and

depict what that was like and then

Having Regina King at the center of the story. And I think that one of the fun things about this too is how it

brings in. It’s really surprising ways and brings in the history of the show, because at first it just seems like this might be a whole separate story. But I think that’s some of the fun is how it does connect back. So anyway, I really was into it. And yeah, really, really enjoyed it. Did you? Did you generally like it?

I want to go back and watch the first couple episodes, I feel like I have mixed feelings. And part of it comes from I think being a fan of the comic and having an idea of

there’s there’s there’s like a whole convoluted history with the Publication history of watchmen and the rights of the characters in the story that had nothing to do with the show and everything to do with like DC Comics and Alan Moore in contracts. So it’s, it’s kind of boring, but it’s hard to like not bring that with you. Sure. That’s it that said the show was interesting in that it does take it doesn’t just you know, it’s not just a straight adaptation. Yeah, they play with it. And then listening to one of the writers who wanted me for it on fresh air. Talk about the way the writers room worked. Where is it they Lindelof? Yes. From last and the leftovers? Yeah. Right. Like he kind of like assembled this writers room is really diverse writers room, but people of color and then just kind of gave it over to them to like create this, right? Because it almost is like saying like, yeah, this show is supposed to be about like, you guys and your perspective and like letting them kind of just like run with it.

And so delegating a lot of that power. And I was just thinking, you know, actually like, picking things up in the middle and watching them is also kind of like if you grew up reading, like all floppies single individuals of comics in the 90s because, you know, when I was growing up, you could go to like the grocery store, and there’d be a new stand that had comic books on them. And you didn’t necessarily start with x men number one, you know, like, my first issue was probably like 260 something, you know, yeah. Just Just so you just you kind of you learn to pick up the story in the middle of things and kind of just figure it out. Yeah, yeah. And I think it does a lot of even watchmen itself, like stories within stories is kind of a part of the comic and then the film, and then they kind of bring that in here too. And yeah, I but it did. It felt like a Damon Lindelof thing too, especially with the way there’s some time travel kind of things that just really reminded me of some last episodes. So anyway,

I keep saying this, but I may also record an episode about the watchmen show with someone else these big comic nerd but I didn’t know you’re so into it, so. Wow, there you go.

So I’ll recommend watchmen, which is on HBO, and it won all the Emmys this last year. Oh, and the score. I just want to say two is really great. It’s a Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross, who I’m just a fan of, but Okay, that’s enough about watchmen. Let’s talk about this week’s Movie. Hirokazu Kore, eight is the truth.

Remember, we’re just a baby. Daddy. I’ve never been here before.

Yes, even though there is a prison just behind it.

No. cmfg have accepted me.

Dr. Phil cydonia.


Alright, let’s talk about the truth. The truth is the latest film from here cosmic creator came out just last year in 2019. And it is first that is not in Japanese. I said in the last episode that it’s his first English language film. That’s not exactly accurate, because I think most of this is probably in French, I don’t know like 75% or something is in French. It tells a story of a mother and daughter who have kind of a strained relationship that might be putting it lightly very strained relationship. The mother is a famous actress named fabienne, played by a real life famous actress Catherine de newf. And the daughter alumier is played by another big name and French cinema. Juliette Binoche. We also have Ethan Hawke as lumieres American husband Hank.

So fabienne is kind of in her later years, and she’s become a bit uncomfortable in her acting career. She’s also incredibly critical of everyone around her. narcissistic to the point that I had flashes of our president actually watching her, I don’t know, the way she would like would have some asides about, oh, I could have thought of that. Or I could have done that better. I was like, Oh my gosh, narcissism. There it is. But she talks about how you know, she almost worked in Hitchcock. And there’s, like all these she’s really big on her own accomplishments, I guess. She also there’s this a family friend named Sarah

That has passed away before the story happened. But her life and her story sort of hangs over these characters. And there’s like a secret that is not initially revealed about

her story. So that’s kind of part of it as well. So fabienne has just published a memoir. And that’s the main reason everyone is gathering to kind of celebrate her new book.

It’s a memoir about her, her life and the things that she some of the things she does include. And some of the things she does not include, are causing drama with the family. And she’s also shooting a film. So that’s a big part of the story.

So that’s kind of the basic setup. So we discussed last time about shoplifters how Korea considers it sort of his, his the end of his second era of filmmaking in his career. And so this is his next film, this would represent the beginning of a third era for him. So my question for you is, did you find this significantly different from phase two? Does it feel like a first to you like something fresh or new? Or do you feel a lot of carryover from previous era of Korea? What do you think? Yes and no. So, yes, I think there’s a lot of carryover in the fact that it is about a family.

There’s a lot of talking, you know, I watched a video essay where I talked about one of the lessons, the recurring lessons from his greatest films is that you’re able to improve upon yourself in your relationships pretty early with your parents through the act of talking, right, like talking is its own sort of therapy, where I think it sort of different is was compared to a lot of the other other family focused dramas that create is made. This one was very light and pleasant, even though it deals with some heavy things. Yeah.

You know, one of the things that I noticed is the camerawork in this film, there’s, I think there’s more movement, perhaps. And he talked about working with a cinematographer who is French for this film. And him basically, one insisting on sort of longer takes coriana thought that there would be more cutting than there actually is in the film. Anybody talked about sound like he was talking to you, when these longer takes to get more and more of the, the performance and less

setups. I guess, he also just talked about how like, once you actually got to France,

and saw just the living space is much bigger than it used to in Japan. So you can do more things with a camera in terms of movement. Wow. Yeah. And I think that in the performances, that particularly towards the end, there’s a scene where they all dance in the street, and he says that that would never happen in Japan. Yeah. So there’s also this sort of fantasy element to the film, I think, or at least like this fantastical idea of what maybe Western countries are like, which maybe we’ll get into more, because there are some things that Korea has said that I think that makes me think like, Oh, I’m not quite sure he always knows what it’s like in various other parts of the world, particularly the West. Yeah, that’s really interesting. I was going to mention the style of it in the camera movement, because I think it does. So like in shoplifters, and we kind of talked about last time. So he he’s made documentaries, and in the past, and he has sort of a realism style and a lot of his films, at least in shoplifters. That’s kind of how I felt about it. And like, almost like shakey cam is not the right word, but it’s kind of gritty and done with the people. And this that I think that’s there, but there was also more still shots, I thought to have like two shots of nature and, and different things. And, and what you mentioned about sort of the lightness of the story.

I saw one description of it said, it feels like a creative film, but it also feels a lot like a French film. And I think maybe that kind of gets at the same idea that it’s

it’s this kind of it’s a family drama, but it’s Yeah, it’s really light and sweet and pleasant, in a way that I think shoplifters has flashes of that, but then it gets so heavy at the end that it’s

it’s just a different kind of feeling. I think, in that way, I think it there are similarities too.

So like in shoplifters, I always think about the beach scene as kind of the the big sweet moment that kind of the memorable scene from it. And I think there’s a little bit of a similar thing and you mentioned at the dancing scene for me as sort of the the sweet family moment that we get here that you know, it was unexpected in a way and kind of

and I kind of got out of the dialogue realm of dialogue and just showed us a

moment between a group of people that was really just nice and sweet. I really liked that that part of it.

So you mentioned that the fact that it’s a family drama like that’s that’s a create a touchstone did the family drama elvet element of this work well for you?

It did, it kind of took them by surprise because I’m not used to him.

Dealing so much with upper class or like even in the middle class or this

Cuz, based off her home, I would say she’s wealthy, although they always mentioned that it’s but there’s a prison in the backyard or Yeah, something like that. There’s a train within here. So that kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. But you know,

I’m trying to think back at his filmography. And I don’t know, I don’t think that he’s ever dealt with actors, or at least not there are people performing roles, but not, you know, pay professional actors and writers and things. And I think that is a different territory from a lot of his his other work.

And it is interesting, because, you know, he was asked about this in an interview, and he said that he didn’t really distinguish between the classes, you know, he thought that he was he was, he was being asked about the relationship between the mother and the daughter.

And he was just saying that,

to his mind, they would have some of the same issues as anyone from a lower class or a higher class. Yeah, yeah. That’s really interesting. I didn’t think about that class difference with Yeah, that absolutely makes a difference to the story. I think the the title of the film is interesting, and it can the way that plays in the idea of truth and what is truth. And it it is sort of a story about filmmaking. And like you mentioned, it’s about actors.

So there’s, there’s a lot of like, remembered details and misremembered details. And there’s some focus on like subjective experience. She, she gloomier the daughter character goes into the film studio for the first time in many years, she hasn’t been there since she was a kid, I think. And she says it seems different. It’s I think, she says it seems bigger or smaller, I can’t remember. But then her mother says

it’s exactly the same, you’re you’re the thing that’s changed about this, which is kind of gets an interesting thing. But the passing of time, it made me think about a movie earlier this year, I’m thinking of ending things. subjective experience was a really big part of that. So I thought that was interesting connection there. But

so the idea of truth is sort of played with a little bit and hinted at in different ways.

But then also in the book that she’s written.

There’s, for instance, she writes about sweet mother daughter moments when, when lumir was a child, and lumir reads it and says, That’s literally never happened. Like you’re just doing sound good. And then also, she leaves people out that are really important. And it’s, you know, narcissistic and self serving the whole book is.

But then that sort of that idea of truth.

And what is truth? It almost has like, what is truth? And I think he kind of ends up hinting about art and film in general, are film specifically.

Sort of like the truth within fiction, I guess.

There’s a moment at the end that really plays into that idea that we won’t spoil. But it

just kind of hinted that into, and I think that the filmmaking part of that comes in as well. So the mother fabienne is, is making this film. And she’s kind of struggling on the set as she’s aging, and she feels inadequate next to this young actress who’s so talented. And Beth, the story ends up paralleling her own mother daughter relationship pretty. Anyway, that’s not really on the nose. Like, I didn’t think it was too obvious, but it was like, clearly that was intended. So I think he’s kind of getting at the idea that, you know, there’s there’s emotional truth in this fictional sci fi story that she’s filming, that can really apply to her life. And maybe it’s sort of a case for film as a, you know, therapeutic tool or something like that, that the way that those emotional truths can resonate. So yeah, what do you think about kind of the idea of truth and how it plays into the story? Yeah, you know, whenever I’m watching a movie, I, there’s a part of me that’s always constantly thinking about the title and how it relates. And I think

this, like the idea that what the film is really doing, as opposed to like, trying to offer you a standard, or a specific thing of idea,

as opposed to trying to offer you a definitive version of what is true, you know, it’s playing with these different perceptions, right, that and perspectives that people have. So, right, so like one of the running things that through the film, as with another character who died before the movie start starts.

She was really like the surrogate mother, right? Because she was there for lots of different things. Like she was there for the school plays and things. And lumir talks about how,

you know, she played the Cowardly Lion and Wizard of Oz. And her mother wasn’t there. But then later we found out well, her mother claims that she was there, right. And so it’s just as these different, these dueling perspectives of what happened.

And, you know, the film doesn’t get too heavy. There are a couple of scenes that are kind of kids. Yeah, they have some arguments, but it never gets

To too heavy, you know, always stays sort of playful. And as you question things, there’s like, there’s this more like whimsical element. You know, I was reading this review, and it never occurred to me to think.

So I’ll back up Sure. There’s the missing grandfather, who was the turtle, who then when he shows up, the turtle goes on he leaves, the turtle reappears. Right. So there’s, there’s this fantastical element to the whole film like Corey, he talked about how he wanted it to be like a fairy tale, like from the from the, from the perspective of the child, he wanted the film, the story, the film to feel like a fairy tale. And so you had the grandmother as the witch. And then

he started thinking about what other fantastical elements you could have. And one of those was like the idea of this animal creature, right? Who becomes her grandfather, and they want he disappears.

You know, the turtle reappears. And so it’s not clear. I mean, I, it’s pretty clear this move takes place in the world. And, you know, he didn’t literally turn into a turtle. Yeah. But from the perspective from the perspective of the child.

It’s possible. There’s, there’s magic. Yeah. Yeah, like that. And that plays into the idea of truth to about, you know, what’s literally true and what’s, you know, what the daughter is believing? Is there some truth in that that’s comforting or fun for her? And maybe, yeah, a fictional thing can contain truth. There’s two different ways you can look at what is true. And I think this movie really wants to play with that idea. Another thing that

kind of plays with that idea is Hanks character.

He is just Ethan Hawke, he,

he mentions over and over that, oh, yeah, I wasn’t there. Because I was doing a shoot, I wasn’t there. I was doing a shoot. And then we find out later, that’s not exactly what he was doing. I mean, we can keep that spoiler free as well. But

I think it’s it’s an interesting dynamic to his character, and his character. So we may we can talk about the performances, his his character is relatively minor in this. But he I really, really like Ethan Hawke, and in most things that I’ve seen him in, and I think he’s really good in this, playing this actor who, so he’s playing an actor as well. And he kind of

wants to

he’s not a super successful I guess, and and Catherine newfs character talks about kind of behind his back that he’s not a great actor, he’s a TV actor or something like that, and kind of makes fun of them. But they end up kind of connecting over acting. I think that’s an interesting dynamic here. But just generally, what did you think of the performances in this?

I like the I like them all. I think most interesting to me is the child performance. creator talked about, essentially not scripting or not directing the child and having the actors who work with the child on the scenes or direct them to the scene right into some like that. Let me see if I could find a quote. He mentioned a little bit of that in the q&a that I watched just, yeah. So yeah, so um, this is from filmmaker magazine. He’s asked about directing children. And he says, as you know, I’ve to write too many children, but I never teach them a script. I always just explained the situation to them. When we’re filming with Ethan, I explained to him the kind of emotions or reactions I wanted to elicit from Clementine. And that essentially, let him kind of screen.

Let him be a kind of screen doppelganger. As a director, I really lucked out to him to kind of direct Clementine while acting on his own performance, which I think is a really interesting approach directing children. Yeah, because there’s this adage that you hear that you never want to put children or animals in your script, right? These two things are sort of unpredictable. And it’s very hard to control. But I think that’s an interesting approach to having like the on screen, parents essentially be responsible for coaxing the performance out of the child on the screen.

Yeah, that’s really interesting that that that makes sense, because I kind of follows with what we see in the film, because Ethan Hawke’s character is often the one

interacting with her, and he’s kind of in like, fun dad mode for a lot of it. And it feels like he’s not really acting like he’s really just playing with these kids. Like he’s at the kids table at a restaurant at one scene. And it’s just hamming it up and just seems like he’s having a lot of fun and like reality, and then he’s playing with her in the backyard and that kind of thing, too. So yeah, I thought he had a really good performance in this. What about Khadijah Nuf? Hey, we could kind of talk about her legacy a little bit too.

Yeah, so

um, her character does not really she doesn’t really open up you know, she’s, you know, you call her a narcissist. I think that kind of fits but where I would not compare her to

the current

President just that she seems to obviously very, very, she’s obviously very deliberate, you know, about smarter, like she says,

Yes, yes. She’s like intentionally, like projecting an image, right? Yeah.

Like she has in her head, a very fixed idea of how actors have a certain status are supposed to behave and treat other people. And so

that influences a lot of the way she is much of her detriment. And there, you know, there are things that maybe she could have gotten away with, when she was younger and Ascendant, as she can’t know that she is essentially at the end of her career. And I think, you know,

her her character, it’s like a version of her, although she says that she’s not like that at all. And she is very self conscious, apparently, about how many people mistake the character in the film as what she’s actually like. Yeah. But you know, she’s like, this legend of cinema. Yeah. Like there’s a movie poster in the film that’s that. I forget what it is in, in the truth, but it’s meant to evoke a film that she did called build the door, which is a is really well known, unless you did that also is about sort of fantasy. Like a woman’s acting out

these eternal fantasies of desire and things. I think there there are elements of that, that I think are

that it has that are in sort of in common with this film. Yeah. Yeah. That’s interesting. Yeah. So she is just a kind of a Titan, especially in French cinema.

I’ve seen actually, sadly, few of her things that she’s she and just French cinema in general is something I’ve meant to dig way more into be able to shore from always been well,

umbrellas of Cherbourg. And the young girls that rush forward. repulsion is a big one. So she’s she’s made a lot of really kind of significant films. And so yeah, having her in this role, I think is, as you mentioned, like very intentional in the q&a that I listened to with Cory ADA. He said he was literally on a plane and thought, you know, if I could have this actor, this actor and this actor, that would be perfect, and that’s who he got was the three leads in this and so she is perfect as this aging actress that Yeah, it does, it does, in a way parallel her real life. But yeah, as you mentioned, probably only to a point there. But I think her performance is really good and especially like the scenes of her onset.

Kind of obviously very uncomfortable and feeling like she has to stick up for herself and that she’s

inadequate in some way like you can feel that to compare to the other actors there.

But then, actually, I really like to something towards the end is that again getting at the idea of emotional truth she has a thing that you hear Actress at the time is that Oh, I should have used that emotion in the scene in bed and that’s that sort of a signal of growth at the end of it, I think. But I think that’s a that’s a good thing. Julia panache as well is the as we mentioned is the daughter here. Also a big deal in fridge cinema. The last thing I saw her in was highlife, the Claire Ginny sci fi thing with with Robert Pattinson. We’re not like pretty well, it’s a very different role than this. So it’s nice to see her being nice person again. But then also in blue from three colors trilogy, which I covered on the podcast last season. That’s actually the only things I’ve seen of her. I think I’m looking at the cheese and some other things, Dan, in real life, that’s a fun, sweet movie that there’s less significant than some of these others. But she’s she’s a big deal in French cinema as well. So it’s, it’s a star studded cast. But yeah, What’s your impression of her in this?

Yeah, yeah, she was also really instrumental, I guess, in getting Cory to make this film. Oh, yeah, I talked about having

her sort of pester him to say, like, you got to make a movie in France, after shoplifters. And, um, but yeah, like in this film. Her character is so interesting. You know, she’s, she’s a writer. And I guess she’s very good at it because there were a couple scenes that won’t go too much into but she’s she writes things that are very effective. Yeah. And she also actually, this is this is actually a sort of a parallel with other career movies, especially

still walking. So like the real quick the plot of still walking as that a man who’s in a relationship with a with a woman who’s widowed, who has a son basically takes her to meet his parents. And one of the things that you see just kind of how quickly old roles are we established right? So like you leave your home, you, you sort of

redefine who you are, but then like you know, you go home and you’re on your parents and just like your default Yeah, you

Are your not so much a kid as you are assigned? Right? Yes, a hierarchy that’s established. And I feel like when, like so in the media that this film, she comes home, and there’s this pre existing relationship with her mother. And she because really quickly slips right back into that, that, that role of those habits.

And I like it, you know, I love like she has her mother’s book, because the whole the whole premise of the film, so she comes back because her mother has released this memoir. And

she’s like, just going through it, she stays up all night reading the book, and like using these post it notes to like, mark all the things that she says, are not accurate. Which is kind of hilarious.

Yeah, well, I’ll say like, you know, she also then,

like, immediately because of the way her mother acts her assistant quiz. And so she also easily slips into that role. Yeah. Like she’s asked to do it. She’s told to do it, essentially. And then it she when she does it, and it just seems so natural. Yeah. Yeah. And then the conditions of being an interesting thing where she feels like because of the the damage relationship between her and her mother growing up, it kind of held her back from falling her own, you know, maybe acting career that she wanted. And then it’s also like, maybe mom is lying about that. And that’s another way she’s

kind of trying to have the upper hand. So yeah, I think, again, some things that it’s not clear exactly what’s true.

But yeah, the I think the mother daughter relationship works really well. And that that probably is in large part to the performance is there. This film falls into what I call be like a subset of films that I love. So I have these different lists on letterboxed.

There, none of them are like that in depth, but like this is, I have this on a list called process. And they’re just films that depict the filming of a movie. So not several movies, it’s got to be a movie. And it’s filmed over the course of a film in some capacity. So like, Shadow, the vampire is on the list. burden of dream to this, like, you know, it’s a documentary, but it’s still it fits David Mamet state in Maine, eight and a half.

And so I added this to that list pain and glory isn’t the one that’s on the list or Day for Night. So just movies that somehow

feature the process of filmmaking. I had a really interesting, yeah, that’s really interesting. Is that a public list? Can I share that with people? I don’t, oh, it’s a private list, but I can make it public. There’s 10 films on the list. the oddest one and the one that I recommend people seek out if they can. It’s only criterion channel is symbio. Psycho taxi plasm. Take one.

Never heard that before. What Seidel it’s as the most interesting thing that the premise of the film is that the director William Greaves

has written a film. And he’s got three camera crews, one to shoot the actual scene, one to shoot like a making of documentary, and the third one that documents the whole thing. So there’s these three layers of filming that are happening. And then it’s kind of like, wait, what is going on here? Because they’re just easy these like different groups of actors shooting the same scenes in Central Park. And then like, where it gets really interesting, as there’s this footage that was shot without his knowledge of the crew, without him talking about the filming of the movie. And at some point, they start, it’s all Oh, there’s this near mutiny, where they’re just like, this guy doesn’t know what he’s doing. Right. And just sort of trying to just like, sort it out amongst themselves.

Is it all scripted? No, it’s, it’s none of it’s scripted. Like it’s a documentary, essentially, about the film. Wow. Okay. I missed that little detail. Wow. It’s a documentary about the making of a making of a make. It’s just this weird. It’s out there. It’s great. Yeah. I was thinking about, like synecdoche in New York. And that’s like, they kind of do that with within the theater. But of course, that’s scripted and meant to be really bizarre and like, so this is like, what if I did that in real life when a movie? That sounds fascinating? Yes, I will definitely link to your list if you’re cool with that in the show notes. Because that sounds like a fun, fun little list. Well, that is created as the truth. Thank you so much. For being part of Season Five. I think it’s been a really great season, looking back at

uncle boo me who can recall his past lives and then cemetery of splendor, the host snowpiercer shoplifters and of course Today’s the truth. I think all I think all really great. Do you have could you pick a favorite out of those? Oh, my. If I didn’t pick one as a favorite hour, probably. I don’t know. They’re kind of apples and oranges.


Because it seems like of each pair. I have a favorite guy still have some terrible


the host and shoplifters.

But man, no, I can’t I don’t think I get pick one. I don’t think I could either.

I think at the most like, I feel like I learned the most about like another culture would be cemetery of splendor. But an uncle boo me as well. But yeah, I do, I think I’d appreciate cemetery splendor more out of those two.

And just such an interesting, fascinating, like, the way that’s sleeping is so involved with that.

Yeah, really, really fascinating. But that’s not the one that I would just like, recommend to just anyone, whereas the host, I think I can recommend it just about anyone, because it is that kind of big blockbuster action, but it’s so thoughtful and so

well crafted. And yeah, that the host is one that I’m shocked I’ve never seen before is one of the reasons I want to do this podcast at all is to like, give myself accountability to watch more things, because I want to watch all these things. But like, we don’t have the time. And so this helps me to kind of buckle down and do it. I’m so glad I watched the host. And then shoplifters. It was my second time seeing it. But

I mean, if I had a name a favorite, it would probably be that the one that I like, think about the most and want to return to the most. That is probably the one for me out of out of this bunch. But

yeah, so there we go. Season Five, is a wrap. Thank you again. Oh, my I think it’s been really good. It’s been great having you with me? Oh, yeah, thank you for having me here. It’s just been a pleasure. I just love the opportunity to revisit some of these films. And for some of them, just getting a chance to watch them for the first time and make them ourselves to kind of you it was awesome. Before we go, I do want to preview a little bit of season six of the podcast since we are closing out season five today with this discussion, season six, you know, what I tried to do is sort of our house garage talking about art house indie classic, try to hit those different kind of buckets of filmmaking and foreign cinema, which is what we’ve been talking about here. But then what I’ve done the last couple years is during award season, trying to kind of do modern films that are significant this year. And I was thinking, Okay, 2020 is been a real crapshoot, who knows if that we’re even going to have a word season or what that’s going to look like. But actually, it turns out, a lot of these award season movies are easier to get to because most of them are streaming. So the plan is to be a longer season. Basically, from now until the end of the movie season, which is generally speaking the Oscars, which has been pushed back to April. So that would make it a much longer season. But plan is to try to talk through as many of the kind of big 2020 film titles that that we’ve had this year. So the lineup is not exactly nailed down yet. It may not be nailed down week to week. But we’re going to talk about as many of this year’s kind of big films as we can. So I mentioned dick Johnson is dead that’s going to be coming up the assistant. The way I see it, I know I’m going to talk about Nomad land and hopefully make the David Fincher Mankiewicz biopic that’s about Citizen Kane, and have back My, my, my guest for the city from the Citizen Kane episode, who knows people in the Mankiewicz family rants column. So that should be a really interesting discussion that’s been pushed back to December, I think, because the film is going to be released in December now. So that’s the other thing is watching that calendar on this because, because of 2020, so many things have been pushed back or pulled or, you know, canceled entirely. So we’ll see. But the plan is to talk about 2020 films and kind of look at the best of the year. So I’m really excited to do that could have a lot of different guests. So Omaya will be back for at least one or two of these and, and several other people that I’ve been able to meet recently in the Arkansas film scene. So yes, I’m excited. That’s that’s going to be season six. Are you excited for Omaya? I am super excited. Right answer. Thank you.

All right, well, with that tease out of the way, then I guess we can wrap up this episode. Thank you so much for listening to art house garage. If you would like to support the show, you can leave a rating or review on iTunes or whatever podcast app you’re using. You can also buy a T shirt or some merch from our house garage, comm slash shop we have shirts that say movies for everyone and one that says watch old movies that’s really cool. So you can go check those out. And also you can follow on social media. We are at our house garage on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, letterbox you can find us there and if you want to email me directly it’s Andrew at our house garage comm or subscribe to our email newsletter which you can go to our house garage comm slash subscribe. Alright, that will do it for this episode. Thank you so much again for listening and until next time, keep it snop free

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Picture of Andrew Sweatman

Andrew Sweatman

Andrew is a writer, podcaster, and film lover who wants to help people think critically about movies. He lives in central Arkansas with his wife Allison and two children, Rosie & Beau. Andrew is the Senior Editor at Arthouse Garage and a member of the Southeastern Film Critics Association (SEFCA). Find him at and on Twitter and Instagram: @ArthouseGarage.

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