Arthouse Garage Podcast

Podcast Transcript for Episode 45: First Cow

Read the Podcast Transcript for Episode 45: First Cow

Read the transcript below:

Andrew Sweatman 0:09
Hello, hello and welcome back to art house garage, the snob free film podcast where we make art house indie classic and foreign cinema accessible to the masses. I’m your host, Andrew Sweetman and Happy New Year, it is now officially 2021. The terrible year that was 2020 is behind us. And the new year is shaping up to be. Well, it’s been kind of rough already. But we don’t have to talk about that. We are here to talk about movies, and movies were one of the few bright spots of 2020 in my opinion. And that’s why season six of this podcast has been all about 2020 films. Even though the year has ended. We’re going to keep going with 2020 movies until the end of award season all the way up to the Academy Awards on April 25. And that’s good because as many great movies as we’ve talked about already this season, there are so many more to get to. Over the next few weeks, we’re planning to talk about the film crip camp to an award winning documentary, Portuguese film called background that I’ve heard great things about and haven’t watched yet gorgeous animated film called wolf walkers, which I have seen and loved, and then a political documentary called voice date. Beyond that the plans are still being made. But today, we are talking about one of my favorites of 20 21st cow. First cow was directed by Kelly Reichert. If you’re unfamiliar with records work, her films tend to be pretty minimal, and kind of intimate dramas with just a few characters, though the settings vary from modern times, all the way to different areas of American history. So first cow is set in pioneer days, and it focuses on a cook, whose nickname is Cookie, cookie makes friends with a Chinese immigrant named King Lu, and the two of them start selling the baked goods that cookie creates. There’s much more to the story than that, which we’ll get into. But suffice it to say that this is a lovely film, and I found it very moving. Before I introduce today’s guest, I want to tell you about a brand new segment on the podcast that starts today. As I continue to do this show, I’ve been exploring what it means to be a snob free podcast, and how to tailor the show in a way that truly caters to everyone. I should start by talking about what I mean when I say snob to me, there are a few ways that quote unquote movie snobs communicate about film that can be harmful. One is discounting someone’s opinion based on what they like or don’t like. This is the person who makes fun of or belittles you for your movie opinions. Like it’s too commercial or too basic, or you haven’t seen enough, great quote unquote great movies or what have you. For example, someone like this might say that if you like Marvel movies, then you aren’t a true cinephile. There are a lot of people who think and operate this way. And it’s a very exclusionary view, I try to make sure this podcast is much more inclusive. Another thing I’ve noticed, and this one isn’t always intentional. But it’s that sometimes in a movie conversation, people will reference movies or directors with the assumption that you’ve seen or at least know about the thing that they’re talking about. Sometimes these things can really add value to a conversation. But other times, it can become a sort of name dropping to show off how much they know about cinema. And whether that’s intentional or not, this can leave people out also. Well, we certainly referenced a lot of different types of movies on this show. And I love it that way. I love having a variety of guests who bring a variety of opinions and film knowledge and bring in outside films when we’re discussing something. And I think that’s great. And I think it’s typically done in a way on this show that adds to the conversation, and isn’t sort of, you know, quote unquote snobby in the way it said, but it is impossible to know what knowledge you as a listener are bringing to the show. In fact, if you don’t know much about movies, you are exactly who This podcast is for. I want this podcast to be very educational. And if we go referencing some obscure Japanese director you’ve never heard of, you might become totally lost. And that’s the last thing I want. I want film lovers of all experience levels to have a comfortable and educational listening experience with this podcast. Movies are for everyone, after all. So that leads me to our new segment, which I’m calling the snob free glossary. Basically, while I’m editing each podcast, I’ll make note of anything we’ve referenced that might warrant some more explanation. And I’ll put together a short explainer at the beginning of each episode, and the snob free glossary portion of the show. That way, if we reference a director you’ve never heard of, well, actually, you have heard of them because I just filled you in a few minutes ago at the beginning of the episode. So that’s the plan. And with that, let’s jump into the very first art house garage snob, free glossary

It’s time for the snob free glossary the part of the show where we explain any films filmmakers or filmmaking terms that we referenced in the episode that you might be unfamiliar with. So you have the context you need to fully appreciate the discussion. Here we go. And this episode we talk a bit about a director named Robert Altman. He worked from the late 40s all the way up until his death in 2006. altman is widely considered one of the greatest American filmmakers. And some of his best known films include mash McCabe and Mrs. Miller, which comes up in the discussion today, the long Goodbye, Nashville and several others. Robert Altman is known for his naturalistic style, as well as having a strong satirical tone in many of his films. We also talk a bit about the film The French Connection, which is an action film from 1971. It was directed by William Friedkin, who also made the exorcist and a handful of other films. But the French Connection is perhaps best known for its car chase scene, which is widely regarded as one of the best car chases of all time. At one point in the show, we throw out the term Italian Neo realism. And this refers to an era of filmmaking after world war two in Italy, that tended to be very realistic. These films told stories of everyday working class people and their struggles, and they often included non professional actors, which added to the realistic style. Many of these films are about poverty, and lower class living conditions, which reflected the reality at the time in post war Italy, which was very bleak and defined by economic hardship for many people. So these films were shining a light on the issues these people were having. But they also had such a strong visual style and tone that this period influenced film for decades to come. Notable films from the Neo realism era include Bicycle Thieves, which is one of my favorites, as well as love and Shura, the Battle of Algiers journey to Italy, and many others. And I’ll wrap up the glossary with a few rapid fire filmmakers and terms here we go. Yes, a gr O. zu, was a Japanese director who worked from the 1920s to the 1960s. We did a podcast episode previously on his film Tokyo story. Andre Tarkovsky is a Russian filmmaker who worked from the 60s to the 80s and we did an episode on his film stalker, so you can check that out. Hirokazu koreeda, is an award winning modern filmmaker from Japan. We’ve done podcasts on two of his films actually shoplifters and the truth. And then Michael Mann is someone who comes up briefly. He is an American filmmaker, known for the show Miami Vice, as well as the film’s heat, Manhunter, and others. We reference a few films in this episode, The Revenant. That’s a 2015 film by director Alejandro Gonzalez in YouTube follows a man trying to survive the American wilderness in the early 1800s. Perhaps most notably, Leonardo DiCaprio won his first Oscar for the lead role in this movie. We also reference Ratatouille, that is a Pixar movie, if you’ve never heard of it. That’s from 2007. It’s about a rat that loves to cook. And it’s great. And then we actually have a couple things from the world of literature. We mentioned William Blake. He’s a poet, significant English poet from the late 18th and early 19th centuries, he’s responsible for works like Songs Of Innocence and experience, the marriage of Heaven and Hell, and others. There’s a quote from him in this movie, and we talk about that a little bit. And then we also mentioned Marcel Proust. He was an influential French writer from the early 1900s, who wrote an enormous seven part novel called in search of lost time, and he comes up briefly in this episode as well. And I think that about covers it. This has been the first ever snob free glossary. I would love feedback on this since it’s a new thing. You can email me Andrew at art house garage, comm or hit me on social media. Do you love this? Do you hate it? Can I change it? What do you think I want to know what people think of this new podcast feature. All right, let’s get into the episode.

It is time to introduce today’s guest. His name is Connor Allen Smith, and he is a very talented filmmaker and actor from Arkansas, who I was delighted to meet at the 2020 film land festival. He’s directed a number of shorts through his Independent Film Company prairie Creek productions. I’ve seen three short films now from prairie Creek, and I’ve been very impressed by all of them. Connor and I first connected over Instagram. And it was pretty quickly clear that we had similar tastes in movies, and I knew he would be an excellent podcast guest. So I’m thrilled to have him here today on the show. Hello, Connor and welcome to the podcast. Howdy happy to be here. This this is a technological void. Yeah, it’s nice to nicotine over. Exactly. Yeah. So I only have ever done a few episodes of this in person with people just because it’s convenient but very sure. So I rolled right into quarantine with the remote

Remote recording. But yeah, it’s good to, you know, digitally connect with you for sure. I’ll have you then house as quarantine treating you.

Connor Smith 10:08
I mean, I think it’s cliche to say as good as like, as good as it can be at this point, but it’s very accurate. You know, it’s that everything is so temporary right now. There’s obviously some excitement with the new year. Yeah. Obviously, some new administration is gonna be really cool. Yes.

Cool. Cool. Everyone’s cool here.

Yeah, and I just yeah, so I’m looking forward to what this year but it doesn’t. doesn’t shake with a very real. Yeah, parameters that we’re living under, and we haven’t lived under. So

Andrew Sweatman 10:41
yeah, so hopeful things. Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say with with a podcast, you know, people might be listening to this month from now. And it might be a very different situation. So hopefully, right now, we’re on the cusp of a vaccine. And, you know, maybe down the road, things are better. But yes, we’re still kind of in the middle of it. But amazingly, movies have been able to continue in a lot of ways, even though it’s been a challenge. And that’s something that I know you’ve dealt with as a filmmaker. So I wanted to first before we get into first cow, let’s talk about some of your work. So I’ve seen three, two films you’ve directed, and then one you start in. That is phosphorescence, which I saw at as part of film land this past summer, which was really impressive. I did a full review of that one in an igtv. People can find that, but I really enjoyed that one. And then Fletcher is one that you start in that, that I really was impressed with to not only your work in it, but just the film as a whole. And then just recently you shared with me one called self portrait, which is a as a nice little kind of mood piece. Very nice black and white, like well edited. Yeah, I think Yeah. Impressed by you know, some of your, your your work that I’ve seen. So what’s the status phosphorescence and Fletcher still doing? festival runs? what’s what’s the latest on all those things?

Connor Smith 12:04
Yeah, so first, the gas. That’s the celebrity couple name for the two flusser. No, phosphorescence and Fletcher, are both still kind of, I say phosphors. And so on the tail end of its festival run Fletcher’s kind of Midway, festivals are all just like podcasts and the whole society adapting right now. So yeah, we as like a little little team are kind of monitoring that and seeing, seeing what’s best and when to drop things and where to drop things. Because short films are this whole other weird medium where they don’t they really aren’t commodified. But they can be very, they can be really beneficial, beneficial for filmmakers. Like with self portrait that was that was really meant to be kind of like a mood kind of poem or time capsule of kind of what me and my romantic partner, my honest partner are going through right now. Yeah. And so. Yeah. And so it’s it’s kind of odd to kind of also be at the beginning of my filmmaking career, and also have this happen during that. Yeah, that stage and so. So they’re, they’re all technically still in festival circulation. But also, like everyone else, I feel like I’m just trying to do the best thing on a given day. And, and the same for the same for the work as well.

Andrew Sweatman 13:19
Yeah. We again, it’s great that filmmaking can continue, even with some restrictions. And so you mentioned you have another project coming up as well. Tell us about that. Yeah, this

Connor Smith 13:31
is a project that was I’m really excited about called Happy birthday, Jimmy. And this is something that is written by kind of our resident screenwriter, Texas Smith, and we have some really exciting actors that I was in a conservatory with up here in Chicago. That you guys for, for context, I’m very much an arkansan, through and through, grew up in Northwest Arkansas. And the last couple years just moved up to Chicago. And as a transplant, but yeah, so some of these actors, I met through that Conservatory, we really wanted to collaborate together. And this script came together and it’s it’s right now kind of in an embryonic stage as we’re waiting for it to be safe to do something a little bit larger. And with that, we’re also like allowing it to kind of like live right now as like, whether it’s going to be a true short film, or, you know, I’ve been watching I mean, and not to make this as as a good segue. But like, I’ve watched a lot of right cartes films and a lot of Ozu and a lot of Tarkovsky a lot of these slower cinema kind of style of works. And I’m starting to think like, you know, what, like, I was I watched river of grass this morning for the first time. And that’s just like a lovely 76 minute like little not quite Feat. I mean, it is technically a feature but I think of it like given where the feature it. And so I’m really excited that Happy birthday, Jimmy I think has the actors and the talent and also the story, that it might be dabbling more into that feature at style to be this like Kind of sprawling family stories and memory play about found like family expectations and things like that. And I’m really excited. So now I’m rambling.

Andrew Sweatman 15:09
Oh, yeah, no, it sounds really interesting. And so there is a crowdfunding campaign for that as well. Is that right? Yes. Yeah. So

Unknown Speaker 15:15
this project is actually fiscally sponsored by the independent film Alliance up here in Chicago. And so they, they went ahead and set up a gift butter for us. So I think you’re up at that link in the description.

Andrew Sweatman 15:27
So shout out. But yeah,

Unknown Speaker 15:29
thank you so much. Yeah. And so we are crowdfunding for that. And because it is a Fiscal Sponsorship, I will add, because I, my producers will like this and just say that that the all the donations are tax deductible through this interface. Yeah. So donate as much as you can. We have some perks as well, like, like a traditional Kickstarter or things like that. On on top of like your donation being tax deductible, but check that out. We have information on that on that link. And that also links to our website where you can find even more information about like the inspiration, a little more specific about the talent of Keesha champagne and Kevin D’Ambrosio that the actors are working with. Yeah, and it’s just anything you’ve probably ever want to look at and know about. Before it’s a movie.

Andrew Sweatman 16:13
That’s really cool. I’ll definitely share that out. And I hope that you can get some support through this. And you know, it’s always great to support local artists and tax deductible. You can’t beat that, right? Oh, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 16:26
Especially right now.

Andrew Sweatman 16:28
Well, I had actually a filmmaking question. I didn’t tell you, I was gonna ask you this. I hope this is okay. But so with a lot of short films, you know, there’s only a handful of names in the credits, small crew, small production. And I noticed on self portrait, one of the things that you list as a credit is an intimacy coordinator. And this is something that I’ve just kind of learned about in the last year or so that this is even a job. So I was gonna say, if I can tell you my understanding of what that is, and you can tell me whether that’s right or not, because it’s really a pretty cool thing. So absolutely. Self Portrait is it’s a little sexy in a couple spots. And so my understanding is that intimacy coordinator is basically a third party that’s there to make sure it’s a safe space for all the performers, that, that everyone’s you know, consenting and comfortable with everything. Is that accurate? Yeah, pretty

Unknown Speaker 17:16
much. Yeah. So I think of intimacy designers as a third party, for sure. And a lot of ways I think of them as like as a choreographer the same way like you’d have a choreography for like a piece of movement. Yeah, essentially, a movement like more traditionally for dance. But the same way with intimacy for this, like they, it’s just choreographed. And I brought on a friend and collaborator, Joel Mendoza, and basically just gave her the keys to this little, quote unquote, sexy section and allows her to graph it out. And just having a third party, I think really allows Yeah, just make sure this this, the space is safe and into your to your now it I think it is a fairly new thing within the film world. And I think it’s much delayed, or in much needed. And as for me, it’s actually something that I first learned about in the theater community up here in Chicago. Because I came up here to kind of one of the reasons I left Arkansas at least for a little bit, was to be participate in the the improv and the theater film community up here in Chicago. And essentially, for every, like storefront thing that has production that has intimacy in it, you’ll find out coordinator. So it was really important for me to take that and bring it over into my film work. And then even with like, shooting during, like our current parameters, so like, I’m like, at the point, when we filmed a couple months ago, we were allowed to have six people on set, or that’s what I felt comfortable with, as a director, with with this agency and everything. And so it was very much a skeleton crew with everybody wearing lots of hats, but it was very important to me that like one of those people was an intimacy coordinator to just be that. Yeah, be that Hall, monitor it be that safe space, and advocate for everybody.

Andrew Sweatman 19:00
Well, that I think that’s great. I really applaud that. When I first learned about what this disposition entitles a my thought was, well, this is great, but I’m afraid that so many low budget things aren’t going to be able to afford to do that. So I think prioritizing that is really admirable so that I think that’s really cool. No, thank you.

Unknown Speaker 19:18
Yeah, well, it’s I mean, it’s all the indie stuff. It’s it really is just figuring out like what’s important and what why I’m so excited to talk about this movie and Kelly’s work in general I think she is a great role model for a lot of independent filmmakers to for us to like value what’s important because I think there’s been like it’s very like an American indie specifically like there’s like this like, no like, like I think of a French Connection like with that really dangerous car chase scene. It’s really cool. Visually, but like, for what freakin Gosh, just blanked on the name. freakin has talked about how he is lucky that no one died. Which is like, a very like, I love cinema. Is my life but I don’t know if it is. It’s, I know it’s not worth someone losing their life to make something. Period. So, yeah, so safety measurements are very important, obviously. Yeah.

Andrew Sweatman 20:13
That is, I think a perfect segue into talking about first cow. So without further ado, let’s talk about first cow.

Unknown Speaker 20:29
Kami cookie.

Unknown Speaker 20:34
My mother died when I was born, and my father died. I never stopped moving.

Unknown Speaker 20:42
to getting started, that’s the puzzle. No way for permanent start.

Unknown Speaker 20:48
You have a cow, horse cow in the

Unknown Speaker 20:51
same place for cows is no place for white men.

Unknown Speaker 20:56
sent some maturity here.

Andrew Sweatman 21:04
All right, let’s talk about first cow. So as Connor mentioned, this is directed by Kelly Riker, who has a handful of titles she’s directed now. And I think this is a really strong film. Basically, this tells a story. It’s kind of Pioneer days of a guy named cookie. It’s his nickname, he’s a cook, and trying to kind of make his way and find his place in this unusual world that is set up really well. And through the course of the film makes good friends with a man named King Lu. And they begin, they start a small business basically, he is baking or frying these, these oily cakes and selling them. And they sell like hotcakes, if that’s a terrible, but they sell really well. And

Unknown Speaker 21:51
points nonetheless.

Andrew Sweatman 21:53
The the twist is that they are stealing the milk that is a secret ingredient from the first cow that’s in the territory. And it kind of gets complicated when the owner of this cow, who again doesn’t know they’re using his milk can becomes involved in their lives. And that’s kind of the basic framework of the story. It’s about more than that. And we’re gonna get into a lot of those things. But I just wanted to see, first of all, Connor, what was your kind of overall impression? What did you think of this movie?

Unknown Speaker 22:22
Yeah, I mean, I fell in love with it. I mean, a little bit of a spoiler. This is one of my favorite films from 2020. So I was really excited when he reached out to talk about this on the slate and immediately jumped out at me. And so I I love this film. And then I was relatively kind of a newcomer to Kelly’s work. I had seen Nick’s cut off, I want to say it was right before I moved to Chicago actually. So I can tell you is 2016. And I think I was a little too young for it at the time. Like I kind of got what was going on. But I couldn’t parse out exactly what what made it special. And so I really am excited to revisit that. But I watched first cow I took this, this recording as an opportunity to kind of go back and watch the rest of her films that I hadn’t seen. So watch the river of grass, I watched Wendy and Lucy and all joy. And yeah, I just I’ve really kind of fallen in love with her work. And this movie, I think is really special. for a lot of reasons I’m sure we’re gonna get into. But I’ll just start with that. My thesis is lovely movie.

Andrew Sweatman 23:25
I completely agree. It’s also in my top 10 of the year. Camera, what number those numbers are arbitrary, but I really movie too. And so I’ve said this kind of thing before in the podcast, but generally my guests are, bring all the great information. And I just hopefully I’m a conduit, because you’re going to be more informed on record than I am. I’ve seen MCs as well. And actually, I probably is in a similar way. I saw it about four or five years ago. And I feel like I need to revisit it. I definitely sensed that she was a gifted filmmaker from it and, and had some interesting discussions around it. But since learned that people really love that movie more than I realized, I want to go back and watch it again. But then laws around this I really connected with first cow. And yes, I’m a big fan of this also, I think for me, so it’s we kind of laid out the plot. I think for me the the kind of the emotional core of this is really a story about friendship and and she kind of pops up right at the surface, it opens up with this quote from a William Blake poem that says the bird nest, the spider web, man friendship. And so it’s just from the beginning that’s on your mind of these relationships are like a basic human thing that we need to connect with people. And that’s actually a really cool message for living in quarantine. And absolutely, you know, we’re all feeling the need for human connection. And so maybe that’s part of why I connect with this movie. So so well, but

Unknown Speaker 24:59
yeah, I really think this movie was like, I think it is kind of a masterpiece. But I think it has an even wider kind of net right now because of the times we’re living in. I think it is I heard or read print Hoffner is a critic I like and she referred to this movie as like Tinder core. And it’s just such a it’s such a tender movie. And I think it really does meet audiences. Like we’re all so vulnerable right now. And also fragile, no matter who you are, can manifest in different ways. But I think this movie is a great kind of like, just thing to like, make you sit down and like, like you mentioned the pots very simple. But there’s a tenderness to the tone. In this film and off Kelly’s films. It’s, it’s something I love about I know, I’ve mentioned this to you, Cory, Jada and his work that, that I love that I definitely see here as well, that just, it’s like a warm hug.

Andrew Sweatman 25:49
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, this to the friendship between cookie and King Lou it, it happens really organically. But it also is so compelling. And you just feel how tied together they are. And I think a lot of that is their character, the characters of both of these men and in the context that they’re in. And I think it’s what you’re saying it’s a little disarming for it to be so tender, because I know it’s a pioneer story, if you come in expecting The Revenant or something, you’re going to be way way off. But yeah, it is. Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s I think cookie in particular. He, they’re kind of they’re in this, this toxically masculine world, basically, that set up really well, from the very beginning. He’s in this company of men, and he’s their cook, and they’re all fighting and very just vulgar and idle. Yeah, that’s a good way to put it primal. Yeah. And you know, they’re succeeding in the wilderness. So like, I don’t want to completely discount them, but they you immediately notice cookies got this gentle demeanor. And he’s just incredibly kind and he’s it’s, it’s in the performance, but it’s in the script here and it just it’s that comes across so strongly that when you first see the connection between him and King Lou, when they first meet, right, it really actually that second meeting, I think so they meet once and he helps him but then they meet again at this Tavern and very much like a good samaritan kind of thing to start Yeah, absolutely tear so right in that opening he King Lou basically is also has fallen on hard times he’s like running for his life has no clothes, no food nothing and cookie against the his better judgment maybe or against the wishes of his his fellow travelers for sure. Take this man in and secret and help them Yes, sir. From the beginning. You see his his kindness not just in his demeanor, but in his actions to your I think that’s pretty cool.

Connor Smith 27:48
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think that’s kind of what maybe what I’m getting at or like, I think that’s a good example of what I’m getting at, in this movie is all about kind of, at least in the tone of it is about helping one another. Which is why I think it’s like so pertinent for right now. You mentioned that The Revenant this is really the antithesis of the record. Yeah, and then the other movie that like honestly, I can’t not not compare it to. I think this is just by sheer proximity. But like tenant that recently came out. Have you have you? Have you experienced to the tenant? Yeah, cuz that movie when you distill it all down, my my, my good friend and very funny Twitter account. He’s a critic as well, Ben Kay, texted me and he said, it’s actually about the friends that you meet along the way. That’s what it is. It’s like, I can’t not compare first cow antenna as these like polar opposites of this very narrative of friendship. And what that like what that looks like,

Andrew Sweatman 28:48
That’s very interesting. Well, I I still tenant, it’s been a few months, I was able to get to like a movie theater and watch it.

Watch it again. But anyway, yeah, I think that’s a that’s a great comparison to 2020 films about friendship, that’s speaking of cookie and his, his demeanor, it’s clear to other characters in the film too. Which is it’s kind of funny in a couple spots where they’re in that tavern. And these two other men in the room get in a fight and they’re gonna go outside and you know, take it out on each other. And one of them has a baby and he says, Yeah, you watch the baby like he just consider that cookies the one guy in here who’s not gonna go fight and he can babysit for me.

Unknown Speaker 29:30
Smells it on the person. Yeah, yeah. And I think that’s a great point of, or a great thing or great segue into like the sense of humor to this film. Because I think you can think of it like as like something pretty slow or like something bare bones because it is a minimalist film. But I think there’s definitely an undercurrent of humor between that both Lew and cookie have that makes them more personable and makes their friendship I think all the more organic because I think there’s so much truth in the reality of like, Like, there’s that initial awkwardness when you’re meeting somebody, and then like, once you’re able to, like, make jokes with them or tell them jokes, like there’s like this, this this intimacy that you share, that you’re willing to, like, try and tell a joke and maybe not be funny in front of them. And it’s not like it’s something cookie does throughout the movie. He has these little jokes that he says, and it really didn’t. They had they make them so, so endearing.

Andrew Sweatman 30:24
Yeah, so it’s like, that’s a way to be vulnerable. And, and they’re there. I mean, like bad jokes. Basically, they’re like, pretty Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 30:31
they’re so bad.

Andrew Sweatman 30:33
They’re, they underscore that connection. For sure. That’s a good point. Speaking of the humor, one of the funniest moments for me, and it’s, it’s not like a funny Haha, joke. It’s just something that cookie does that just made me smile. And it’s whenever they go to take the milk for the first time and every time. So he puts King Louie goes up in the tree to be a lookout. And he sits down. And he’s like, basically alone with this cow. And he talks to it and makes conversation and, and in a way that is really funny. But it also is, again, really endearing, because he just clearly is has such a caring nature that he he has heard people talking about this cow, because it’s like all the rage like this big news that this cow is in the area. And yeah, he’ll It is the first cow to the region. Yes. Like, yeah. And one of the things he hears is that there were there was a family of cows. But this is the only one that survived. And he so the first thing he says, Is cows like I heard about your husband. That’s terrible. Like, it’s Yeah. Is it so funny, but it’s so sweet to hear, because he’s so genuine with it and their performance. And he just makes conversation with his cow every time he’s taking the milk and yeah, it’s just a really sweet, sweet and funny thing. Do you love arthouse movies and blockbusters? Do you get excited about the power of cinema and you want more people to watch more movies? Perfect. Tell the world right from your T shirt with some official art house garage merge. We’ve got shirts declaring movies are for everyone. We’ve got comfy beanie hats with the art house garage logo. And we’ve even got clothing that encourages people to watch weird movies or watch old movies. Who knows maybe someone will see your T shirt that says watch old movies and be inspired to go home and watch Citizen Kane for the first time. Get all your art house garage gear today and show your support by going to art house slash shop.

Unknown Speaker 32:37
Yeah, the term I kept thinking of everything about I think that this movie is sympathetic like imagination. And I’ve I don’t actually know the origin of that, but I’ve heard it thrown around. And I think I know what it means. But what does anybody know any words anyway? But like I’ve heard it, like associated with like Jonathan Demi’s films and like, there’s like, obviously, especially with films today, like with Tennant, or The Revenant, etc. Like there’s such a cynicism or if there isn’t a cynicism, there’s like a, like a level of like, meta to like, I don’t know, distance people from like being vulnerable. But like, I think it’s really powerful when a director or writer or actors make make the creative choice to be sympathetic or empathetic with their work. And it’s just it’s so powerful. And it’s so I don’t know, I get excited when I see things like that. So they so that’s one reason I love this movie so much is that sympathetic imagination, and I don’t think it’s just for cookie and Lou. I think what’s great about Kelly’s work too, is like, essentially, every character is a human being. Even like kind of the quote unquote villains and outs every person. Yeah. And like, but even like, the the side characters, like, there’s like this really lovely shot of a man holding a little like, Is it like a chick? Like a baby chick or a baby duck?

Andrew Sweatman 33:54
Yeah, I think it’s, yeah,

Unknown Speaker 33:55
yeah, he like, he, like holds this, like, tiny piece of life. He looks kinda like a very rough kind of rugged man. And like, he doesn’t have like, pretty much any other lines. He might have one. But he’s just like, part of the community. And like, the movie takes a second to, like, just look at this man. cradling and like admiring this tiny duckling for like, several seconds and like, and like for a duration of time. And like, no other reason. Yeah. No, yeah. I think, yeah, it just like creates a sense of like, I didn’t think there was some world building to it. Like, she does, like do worldbuilding very sadly, like through characters through this because the, I imagine like the set was pretty small in actuality, and kind of kind of sparse. But I also think visually that like is beautiful. For this, like, felt like this pioneer style story. But I also think like it’s just like very savvy storytelling as well. I get like, it like shows you the community through the people. And every single person in that community has something that they’re tender to or like tender towards.

Andrew Sweatman 34:57
Yeah, that’s great. Another Kind of a little aside that I just noticed as a grid filmmaking choices, and this maybe gets into the diversity of the area too. So it sets up really well that everyone, basically almost everyone here is from somewhere else. And this interesting history, you can almost see, you know, if, if you wanted to make a story about friendship and something historical and was like, when can I have a time when there’s going to be a Chinese immigrant and

all these different variety of people in one spot. And like this, pioneer time is the perfect time and they discuss that and how there’s one funny line in that net bar scene where

someone says, This is not a place for cows, God would have put cows here if it was, and then somebody replies, well, then it’s no place for the white man either or something like that. Yeah, none of us really belong here. Like this is.

Unknown Speaker 35:57
Oh, yeah. Yeah, there’s,

Unknown Speaker 35:59
I think there’s two great things I want to touch on with that. First of all, like, I love this period, and like American history, and especially like through cinema, I think there’s like some really special work with this. And then I think the obvious or an obvious like spiritual cousin to it is Robert Altman’s McCabe and Mrs. Miller, which is like another kind of Northwestern style, Western themed period of time, like development. And I listened to the criterion has a lovely blu ray of that, and on the commentary check for that, all men talks about how like, he wanted all the actors to talk differently, because, like, there wasn’t a whole lot at that point, which is why I’m like, so excited about that time is like, it was like, so rugged, and not just like mountainous terrain, but but the people too and like, everyone was like learning and coming from somewhere else. And it was like this, like, so much potential was there. And obviously now we’ve seen it kind of the Washington of Americas, etc. But like, there was such like, there’s such a beautiful, beautiful, like, sense of kind of like right now like, like hope and like opportunity. It really isn’t a dream for so many different people coming together and having the opportunity to to succeed where they couldn’t in the past or where or where they were for various reasons. Yeah, and that that also brings me at because we kind of got that’s a perfect segue into the second point of like, like politics a little bit. I watched also criterion channel this is not not not sponsored by

Andrew Sweatman 37:27
new plug. We are touring a lot on this podcast so maybe I should just reach out for for sponsorship at this point. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 37:34
It’s it’s good asset for everyone. But it’s also I think, important to say that it’s not the only asset and I think everyone for every movie you watch on criteria on you should watch Fast Five or something in that it doesn’t snap free podcast. I like a lot. I

Andrew Sweatman 37:48
really love that. Thank you. Yeah, my pleasure.

Unknown Speaker 37:52
I because I love you know, I love fast and furious and I love Tarkovsky Solaris, and all of those things aren’t actually exclusive. Oh, but but the one of the assets to the channel is they had this interview with Kelly, I think it was like the 10 year anniversary of oscilloscopes oscilloscope who’s released a lot of her films. And she talked about how her and her regular because most of her films are written or co written with a Jonathan Raymond I believe is his name, who is a short story is from Portland. And she talked about how they’re both very political people, but they don’t want their works to be like propaganda or like overly polished like political. So it’s like, so they talk about those things and like kind of the ideation stage. But like, once they get to the script level, like they’re not intentionally trying to, like make a political statement through their art, what they’re doing, it’s like, they’re trying to like, let it breathe in. And she admits that like, it’s definitely a theme like a kind of account, counter anti capitalist theme throughout all her work, but like, there’s the and I don’t know if it’s entirely anti, but like these, like commentaries of capitalism of like, something that like really stuck out with me, and this film is like the other line of like, in order to like, make something happen, you either need a miracle or a to commit a crime. That’s like a that’s a paraphrase of one of Lou’s line, and alignment stuck out from me from her film, Wendy and Lucy is there’s this, this security guard who says that he needs to address to get an address, and you need a phone number to get the phone number, and just kind of talk to the catch 22 of America of capitalism, that like you have to have something to, to develop something, which is a really cute and tragic observation.

Andrew Sweatman 39:31
Yeah, that’s fascinating. And I when he Lucy’s is on my list, I haven’t seen that. But that’s really interesting. I think, in this film, at least it shows it kind of shows their whole process of like, starting a small business, kind of and then you see this the pitfalls and the struggles and I think that’s only gonna kind of bring empathy for, for audiences to I don’t know, think about the small businesses in your life, maybe and of course, yeah, different contexts, but I think that those Those kind of questioning capitalist systems is something that is a bit timeless in America. And it’s, it’s right here at the beginning, like early stages of our country. And here we are today with a lot of the same, same issues. But yeah, that’s absolutely, yeah. It’d be I like what you said about the kind of the diversity of accents to because we do we have this this strong Scottish accent. And then we have this Chinese immigrant and you have all these different people. And so in a way, everyone’s kind of an outsider. And yeah,

Unknown Speaker 40:31

Andrew Sweatman 40:31
I think one thing that I liked about that there was a line that King Lew said he, and he’s actually I can’t remember exactly his background, but he’s been displaced from his home and travel the whole lot. And he’s explaining some, some belief of his people to to cookie and cookie says, Do you really believe that? And King Lu says, I believe different things in different places. Yeah, that was a really interesting line and one that I had that written down a minute. Before. Yeah, just thinking about how people change and grow and how you’re setting and does affect you. And I don’t know, I just thought that was an interesting, interesting thing and kingdoms characters. just fascinating that I think part of the the friendship aspect of this is that they kind of need each other to build what they build in this, this selling of the hotcakes or the oily cakes, because cookie obviously brings the the he has a background as a baker, and he also clearly has a love for it. And he’s just sitting around like, you know, I could make something really delicious. And then King Lew has this this businessman kind of drive and he’s like, you know, we could sell that. And I think they wouldn’t have got the vision. Yeah, exactly. And he brings that side of it. And it just shows that again, in a really kind of organic in

a way that just seems to flow naturally from from their relationship. I think that’s, that’s interesting part of that. Yeah, and I think

Unknown Speaker 42:00
when they’re there, I mean, obviously, we can’t talk about this movie without talking about and we’ve talked about it a bit, but like, their relationship and like their, their report is like, it’s it’s, it’s the whole meat of this, this movie. And I and I was trying to think of it last night of like, because my partner, Alexis, like she talks like, she’s talked about, like, whenever she directs her, her first song, whatever, like what when she, when we sometimes talk about, like, projects that we want to like dream, like, she’s really fascinated with, like male and masculine relationships. And like, one of her favorite movies, or one of our comfort watches is I love you, man. Which is like, just kind of,

Unknown Speaker 42:38

Unknown Speaker 42:39
yeah, yeah. And so it’s some of it. I mean, it’s a it’s an arts kind of comedy. So some of it is a little dated, but but but at the core of that is again, just like this, like really lovely relationship of two men being vulnerable with each other. And it’s something that I don’t think we see all too often. And films like we see like, obviously, we obviously see a lot of male representation and cinema, but they all act kind of it’s all a lot of is from that john wayne kind of paradigm of like masculinity is. And I really love that what here we essentially have, like, I’ve heard the term like Brahm, calm, like for like a bromance romantic comedy, but I really think like, at the end of the day, this is like just a romantic comedy, kind of like, like, taking the gender away from it. Like there’s just like a romance between the that doesn’t need to be sexual. Maybe it would be I don’t know, it doesn’t matter.

Andrew Sweatman 43:32
Like read that into this. I wouldn’t be mad about it. But no, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 43:36
But there’s this messiness, this romance to it and like, and there is like this, like light, light, light comedy, there’s simmers like, and I know that the way that intimacy like simmers throughout it, I think is just so so beautiful.

Andrew Sweatman 43:49
Yeah, I agree in it. It does, it kind of follows a romantic comedy structure a little bit and that, you know, they meet they have a meet cute sort of exactly. kind of grow together. And then something happens towards the end, which I think we can say spoiler free, but something happens and it kind of driving them apart. And will they get back together? And that’s Yeah, that’s a lot of the the driver of this. I think that’s, that’s really interesting.

Unknown Speaker 44:12
Well, I think that’s a great segue into the device have enough to enter. This is your podcast, sorry, I’m so excited about it. But but the framing device of the whole thing. It’s kind of like a spoiler free movie, because of the way the movie starts out. Now, if you want to talk about that, I did

Andrew Sweatman 44:26
want to talk about that opening. It’s interesting because it and I didn’t expect this but it opens on something happening modern day, someone walking their dog by a river and you see a boat that clearly is not from that period. And just the sound design actually too. You can kind of hear the modern bustle, and that fades away once we do move to the back in time. But if someone comes across two skeletons, it can kind of dig them up and it’s like, oh my gosh, what’s going on? And then it cuts to meeting cookie for the first time. And so, again, it’s not exactly Clear, but it’s like, well, I think I know where this is headed. Exactly, but, but I think it’s such an interesting way to, to open the film because in one sense it It ties it to, to our modern time like it literally your, your, you know, in your current setting, like where you are watching this movie, and then you jump back. And so there’s a familiarity there. And you notice the difference, like I said, with the sound design with like, it just feels different when it’s not modern, which is a nice filmmaking thing. Like she just does a good job with that, but then also it with the what what’s constant between these two things is the landscape. And I think that Kelly Reichert at least in mix cut off, like the landscapes in nature is a big part of the story. And that seems to be true here too, where it’s a little bit about, like man versus not man versus nature, but man’s relationship with with the land. And that kind of gets back to that same I believe different things in different places, and how places so important for for people and community and that sort of thing. So yeah, that was an interesting thing. Did you have any thoughts about that? That opening?

Unknown Speaker 46:07
Yeah, no, just to say that I love it. I mean, I am a big fan of I believe it’s all the Schuchat she’s like made maybe from Arrested Development. So

Andrew Sweatman 46:16
maybe it is

Unknown Speaker 46:18
exactly. I mean, obviously, I love her work and Arrested Development way back in the day. And so I and at that point, I haven’t I haven’t seen any of other right cartes films when I watched this. Oh, besides makes cut off. So I was surprised to like, see her and like, oh, and and yeah, so I it wasn’t what I was expecting at all for the movie and but at the end of the day, narratively, I think like I said, it kind of makes the movie spoiler proof because it like tells you that two people are gonna get together and they’re gonna die together. And like, that’s, yeah, I think I think that’s just a really great way of, and I also think it like, not in the same way that like to evoke Nolan again, not like not in the way that like you have the top spinning at the end of inception. But I think that does leave up some ambiguity to the story of like, what they’re like, this is cookie and lose actual story, or whether this is like, what Ali’s character who I forget what she’s credited as, but like, just as like, it’s like,

Andrew Sweatman 47:15
like walker or something like that. Almost. Exactly. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 47:18
So maybe this is a story woman with dog like, fabricates, like as she sees these skeletons together, or whether it’s somewhere in between? I don’t know, man, I don’t think I need to know. I don’t know if Kelly knows, or anybody, like if there’s like a capital A answer, but I think it’s like a really beautiful kind of leads to the poeticism of the whole thing.

Andrew Sweatman 47:39
Yeah. That’s great. I didn’t consider that. But that makes a lot of sense. I’ve got an interesting, interesting reading of it. I think earlier, I referenced, you know, a small aside, I never got to it cuz I got distracted. But it was kind of on the lines of how essentially, everyone’s an immigrant in this situation, except for the Native Americans, which there are a few native native characters. And there’s, they don’t have a huge role in this film. But if there’s actually they do and mix cut off, actually, there’s a lot of Native American stuff going on there. So for whatever that’s worth, but there is a really nice moment that I think it’s a world building thing, like you mentioned, when they are at the the captain’s house camera, his title, but they all leave to go outside and see the cow. And it just leaves these two native women who are servants or something like that, I’m sure they they stay in the house when everyone leaves, and the camera just lingers on them, like sitting down and they kind of let their guards down. And like, I think they even hold hands and like, now we can like, have have a moment of girl talk and like yeah, just get going. Yeah, it’s like, again, not not hugely relevant to the plot, but a really nice kind of humanistic little moment there.

Unknown Speaker 48:50
Yeah, absolutely. I think I mean, everything like when you tell American story, like it is like if you if the Native American kind of or like story is baked into America and like so any story you tell it like it is there, it’s whether you omit it or you acknowledge it and I think Kelly does a really good job of kind of weaving it into our narratives. organically I you mentioned MCs cutoff, I know and actually this is the one that is left on my to watch list is a is certain SFM certain women and one of the women that you mentioned and that is actually Lily Gladstone who is like one of the the main actors of certain women and so it’s cool to see her bring her back and like continue to give her work and like if it’s it’s it’s just a really cool kind of a company thing to see as Kelly like develops. Because I know like she also like has like the musician will old him like pops up a lot for movies and I believe he even did the score or like did some music for this first one as well.

Unknown Speaker 49:46
I believe so. Maybe I’m maybe I’m making that up though. But yeah, I think it’s just really interesting and like,

Unknown Speaker 49:53
I guess where I’m going with this is I love the choice. Something I’m really excited about also with filmmakers is when they make The choice not to subtitle like foreign language. Because a lot because, I mean, sometimes there’s exposition that needs to be picked up on but a lot of it, you can just dip, like, you can just kind of infer from context. And I think subtitling my backgrounds in anthropology so i can i can ramble about this for a while. But I think there’s something kind of inherently colonial about subtitling, like saying like, this is another language like that, you have to note saying that there’s like this level of translation that that is that there’s like a power dynamic there. And so by not subtitling it, like, there is like, no, obviously, the movies mostly in English, so it’s tilted. But there is like this, like level of quality there, which I really, I really like. Because we don’t know, we don’t need to know exactly what the Native Americans are saying. But like we we get, we get from the context cue clues. We get it from the performance and everything that’s going on. Yeah,

Andrew Sweatman 50:57
yeah. No, that’s, that’s super interesting. And that’s a that’s a great point about subtitling. And to parse that out a little bit, I guess. So what you’re saying is that, in that view, you know, if you’re having you know, English as the quote, unquote, normal way to speak and so then we need to explain everything else to our viewers. But this is a little bit more of a maybe humanistic way of, of, of seeing that. That’s, that’s really interesting. Yeah, that So speaking of Native Americans and MCs cut off that that is one. So again, these are the only two films as far as I’ve seen, but one connection there, I think, is that in that movie, I remember having a sense of kind of connecting across barriers, whether that’s cultural barriers or, and maybe looking at like time barriers. So that’s where we have this modern opening and going back in time, and maybe this this woman with dogs kind of connecting with these peoples, even if it’s Mike, you’re saying maybe not even their true story. But yeah, but in weeks cut off, there are there there’s sort of friendships across cultural divides. And I think that too, is one of the strongest things about this. And that, that cookie and King Lu are from such different backgrounds, and they talk about their backgrounds. And I think that’s interesting thing, too, is that they, I think they both have moments, but especially King lieu of talking about, you know, their people where they came from, and even talking about the racial biases and the things that their people it’s common in their, their cultural background, but they clearly don’t share with with most of the people from that background. Oh, that was interesting. Yeah, so interesting quality, and the two of them, but I think there’s, there is something about just making connection with someone who’s really different than you. And there’s something special about that. And, and this really captures that. Well.

Unknown Speaker 52:45
Yeah, and I was gonna say I think that just as another instance of how well the light the politics of this is woven in it’s like, it’s just so lived in and so character based that it doesn’t feel like this, this this PSA, but it’s like, these characters very much are not like, are not all capital W white and like they like they are experiencing their own kind of struggles and like this expansion time. And so it’s, it’s Yeah, it’s just a really interesting piece of humanity. I feel like we keep using the word humanism, but like, I feel like that that’s what this film is. It’s a lot of humanism. And I think something I wanted to know is which I think we’ve kind of been talking around some of the the elongated shots, kind of like Italian neorealism, like how we like hang on certain characters for a little bit longer. Whether it’s the workers in the house, or the little my favorite character with a duck. I think that maybe isn’t part because to like this, I believe is the first film she shot digitally. Everything else has been celluloid. And this also is the longest film she’s done by about I think Nick’s cutoff is like 145 everything before this is like it’s like somewhere between 70 to like 90 minutes usually. And this is a this is a healthy two hour film. And I think part of like, I think there’s like I don’t know, I would be really interested to ask Kelly about like, if the decision to shoot digitally was done beforehand or like after like they developed the scripts were like realizing was the best thing or like when a 24 like said they would produce this like or distribute this. Yeah, like that was a good decision. Have you ever lost? Yeah, because I think there are longer takes on this film than some of our other work. Like there’s that digital atmosphere. There’s a lot of low light which like I don’t know, I think I’m very much from the school of thought like I definitely think cellular is romantic but I don’t think it is like i think i think you can make a capital F film with like with digitally like, like Mike like Miami Vice Michael Mann stone that’s that’s gorgeous and digital and like etc and like so many other examples and obviously this is digital. But but so so for me it’s like very much like what which key is right for right lot. What was the right key for the right lock and so When shooting like low light situations, digital is by far, like a better option, because you just need so much light for celluloid to be exposed for the negative to get the correct exposure. And so I think there’s a lot of this film that takes place and at nighttime, obviously, because of their little heist. Yeah, but I think I don’t even know if that’d be possible, or like how this movie would look through celluloid. Because so much of it isn’t in low light.

Andrew Sweatman 55:28
That’s interesting. That’s so now when I rewatch makes cut off, which I hope to do for too long. I’m gonna key into those nighttime sequences and yeah, that’s, that’s interesting. And we should mention maybe the aspect ratio, too, it’s a little bit but yeah, it’s not. I don’t know exactly what the ratio, but it’s it’s not like super wide angle.

Unknown Speaker 55:46
Yeah, I don’t know. Exactly. It’s four, three, I think I call it like Eric Lee. Yeah, yeah. I think that that’s great. Like, to the world building of AI. This is like coming from Paul Thomas Anderson, like where he talks about, like, when he’s doing a period piece, like, the best way to time travel is to use that equipment. So like with Inherent Vice, and like the master, like they dug out those cameras to make those movies look that way. So they end this let me let me finish it with Mac recently. They’re trying to like play that like a static look to like help that help that kind of parody in a way or that that homage. And so I think the four three aspect of this does does does some really great work of like paying homage to like these, these older like it right off the bat shows you this film isn’t going to be it’s not going to be fast and furious. It’s gonna be much more contained. There’s there are things that are restricted. And literally, the frame is restricted as well.

Andrew Sweatman 56:43
One other thing I wanted to talk about was the just kind of the way the food is, is using this film. Like for one thing. It made me really hungry. Like these cakes. He’s making it look delicious, and makes this more elaborate cake later on to Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 56:58
they’re funnel cakes, right?

Andrew Sweatman 56:59
Yeah, the final cake. Yeah, that’s what it looks like. It’s apparently has milk in it. Like, I don’t know what all but like, I could maybe cook that but the other Friday. Like, essentially, it looks like a fun okay. But I love the moment when and this speaks to to record, you know, the quote unquote villains in this having a pretty full humanity and like feeling like real people is that before we go the first time we even meet the captain, I think, or maybe the second I can’t remember. But before we really understand the dynamic at play, he he’s a customer and he comes and tries one and he has this beautiful line where says I taste London and this cake. And you can just see like, I have this beautiful experience eating this thing. An a which speaks to like, why they’re so popular among these people who have no other comforts of home and, and that sort of thing. But yeah, that always I had a professor in college who talked about the movie Ratatouille a lot, because the moment and he says this is a Proust II and moment so Proust, Marcel Proust, who wrote in search of lost time, which I’ve not read super long, but apparently, there’s a lot of mad about things triggering memories and nostalgia and and, and having like emotional connections to things I think specifically food and and Ratatouille there’s a great moment towards the end where this you know, this, this hard, hard boiled food critic who never smiles, taste this route aterian takes them back to their childhood and there’s like just a really beautiful I would say there’s your your Ratatouille Proust moment in here in this movie with the with the captain

Unknown Speaker 58:34
Hannah, since memory is a powerful thing and the way these things like get triggered and I and yeah, I I it’s really interesting to see and someone I can relate to, like with with this character. I’m also Fred’s play by Toby Jones, I’m forgetting his character’s name. But that sense of nostalgia you get like I like being in Chicago and being this like little bit of a circuit. There are things and like memories and smells and like food I crave, like, what I like want to be back in Arkansas, or like, I’ll like have my grandmother’s macaroni and cheese. Like, I’ll take it at home up here. And like, like, I triggers this like thought I had from like a visit down to Dallas and so about food is like a really powerful thing. And since memory in general and like it. Yeah, I just it just goes back to the humanism of it all. And like how cute cute this like these observations are? And oh, and I guess like on that like that level. I think that another like masterstroke to this movie that we have talked about is when lou is chopping wood, and we just see cookie stand in the doorframe and he doesn’t know what to do with himself for a couple seconds. And then he starts to tidy up. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 59:42
I think that’s such like,

Unknown Speaker 59:44
it’s so human. And it’s like when you’re over at a friend’s house and you don’t know what to do like they’re still cooking or preparing. It’s like, you know what to do with your hands like you just want to help out or do something I just I love that he

Andrew Sweatman 59:55
just grabs a broom and start sweeping up. And I think that again, that speaks to his character and his It’s again, kind of separating him from the kind of more brutish manner. I don’t know, traditionally, cleaning the house is not what you think of as a masculine character trait. But he’s sure that that doesn’t bother him one bit and and in fact, it’s his first instinct. And I think that again, just shows why he stands out in a good way in this in this society. I think that’s that’s pretty cool. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:00:22
yeah. I I don’t know if I have anything to add. I just wanted to say yeah, because yeah, I hadn’t really considered too much of the, I guess the Compare contrast of masculinity compared to like the community. But I think that I think what you’ve been talking about this whole time is absolutely baked in and like, really important to the story. And yeah, we just in the way it focuses in on these characters like of just like, they, I think there’s again, so much power in the way we focus on them as opposed to focusing on The Revenant and because like, I think that like there’s a real philosophical question of asking is like, is that a life worth living? That much struggle in that much pain and despair but but the first cow definitely seems like a life worth living you know, intimacy and community and

Andrew Sweatman 1:01:10
yeah, and love Yeah, I think that’s as good a place as any to end our conversation. It has been really good thank you so much, Connor for coming sounds like we both highly my pleasure this movie Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:01:22
I highly recommend this movie. Also check out Wendy and Lucy that’s on Amazon Prime I think right now. I didn’t I know it is. I just watched it last night. I don’t know why I had but I’d say if because this one’s a little bit longer. I highly recommend it but it might be not be able to speed because it’s a little bit slower. Wendy and Lucy’s like 80 minutes I’d say. And it’s got it’s a little bit more approachable if you’re if you’re interested in Kelly’s work but not not ready to set aside two hours

Andrew Sweatman 1:01:50
Yeah, I’ll that sounds like a wise decision and and I’ll say to maybe don’t start with with Meeks cut off like I appreciate that. But it is a little less accessible even then this I think so. But yeah, I think this is this is really strong to this right now is streaming on Showtime first cow if you had bad, but it’s also you can rent it anywhere online. All right. Well, that is first cow. Thank you again, so much Connor for being here. So it’s been great.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:15
Absolute pleasure often do it again. Yeah,

Andrew Sweatman 1:02:17
absolutely. I’d love to hear. A big thanks again to Connor Allen Smith for coming on the show. I had a really great time with this one. Check the show notes for links to follow him and his films, as well as a link to the crowdfunding campaign we mentioned for his upcoming feature. And stay tuned for future episodes coming up on the podcast. We’re planning to talk about the film’s crip camp back around wolf Walker’s voice date. There are several others in the pipeline as well. I’m really excited for all of these episodes. And thank you so much for listening to art house garage. We’ve got a few years worth of episodes and you can hear all of those in your podcast app of choice. Our theme music is by composer Paul unifil Learn more at www dot appalling productions calm and you can find a link in the show notes. If you want to support art house garage, leave a rating or review in your podcast app or you can buy an art house garage t shirt at art house garage, comm slash shop. stay in the loop about art house garage and the films we’re covering by subscribing to our email newsletter that’s at art house garage comm slash subscribe. You can also email me directly Andrew at our house and of course follow on social media. You can find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and letterboxed just search patch art house barrage and all those places or find links in the show notes. And that will do it for this episode. Thank you again so much for listening. And until next time, keep it’s not free.

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Andrew Sweatman

Andrew is a writer, podcaster, and film lover who wants to help people think critically about movies. He lives in central Arkansas with his wife Allison and two children, Rosie & Beau. Andrew is the Senior Editor at Arthouse Garage and a member of the Southeastern Film Critics Association (SEFCA). Find him at and on Twitter and Instagram: @ArthouseGarage.

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